[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /viewtopic.php on line 988: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone.
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /viewtopic.php on line 988: getdate(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone.
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4505: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3706)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4507: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3706)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4508: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3706)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4509: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3706)
www.goodeatsfanpage.com • View topic - Pain

Pain

Want to talk politics? Find your threads here! (NOTE: If you started a politics thread in the general forum, it's probably here by now.)

Moderator: Chef Mongo

Re: Pain

Postby ABwannabe » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:47 am

I think I should explain the philosophical position from which I'm arguing[1], to help explain my questions and points.

I believe that the problem with guns is the same problem with many points of discussion: Society. aka people. aka individuals operating en masse. The problem isn't the tools, it's those who use them. Our society seems to be hell bent to rush away from long-held truths and principles, all in the name of "progress" and "enlightenment". We seem to refuse to be defined by old-fashioned ideals such as patience, restraint, intelligent debate, respectful disagreement, integrity, bravery, meaningful compassion, and individual service (in little things, like grabbing a shopping cart from the parking lot instead of getting it inside, to big things, like missing a job interview to help move someone's car). We're like a teenager who gets embarrassed when described as "good", as if that's somehow an insult among his peers.

If we accept that society is doomed to its current path, then addressing the problem with violence is merely placing a band-aid on a severed limb. We must address the *real* problem before the symptoms can be seriously addressed.


[1] argue : To put forth reasons for or against; debate
ABwannabe
Vice Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 1898
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Pain

Postby uncle Ted » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:09 am

okbye wrote:The current system doesn't work. 1934 is hardly modernization, that was still a very different era.


The Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, prohibits ownership of newly manufactured machine guns by
civilians
. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act,
but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.

Again, the modernization has occurred.

Maybe the current system doesn't work because government isn't enforcing the existing laws.
A 2003 report from Americans for Gun Safety reveals that 20 of the 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to
U.S. Department of Justice data, only 2 percent of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted, and 85 percent of those
cases were crimes of possession. That means the people illegally selling or transporting guns are almost never being charged
under the firearms statutes.


PDF: THE ENFORCEMENT GAP: Federal Gun Laws Ignored

How Chicago Became ‘Chiraq’

On Easter weekend, 45 people were shot in the city, six of them children.

Five youngsters under the age of 15—four girls and a boy—were shot in a playground where they had
gone after Easter services at a nearby church.

And this bloody Easter weekend was preceded by a weekend in which 37 people were shot, four of them fatally.
FBI Director James Comey happened to be in Chicago the following Monday, and he ascribed much of the violence
to the gang culture so deeply ingrained in the city.

[Chicago Police Superintendent Garry]McCarthy emphasized that the Chicago Police Department is pursuing a wide
range of strategies to stem the violence, much of which is gang-related. And the murder rate is actually down this
year. But even the smartest policing by the most dedicated cops can only do so much in the absence of effective gun laws.

“If you don’t go to jail for gun possession, you continue to carry guns,” McCarthy said. “You continue to carry guns,
and people get shot.


Note: Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
Is this a matter of needing more laws that aren't enforced or actually enforcing the existing laws? :think:
uncle Ted
Seaman Briner
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:16 pm

Re: Pain

Postby todd » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:26 pm

I guess we'll look to Georgia to really find out about gun laws now.
User avatar
todd
Vice Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 2475
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: ct.

Re: Pain

Postby new cook » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:30 pm

haleoalau wrote:
new cook wrote:No. But your love of firearms and completely out of proportion with reality level of fear of being separated from those inanimate objects supersedes any concern you might have for actual living human beings and the very real dangers — past, present, and future — posed by hate filled, trigger happy bigots who want to "cleanse" America in any way they can, whether by violence or by turning frustrated white middle class people into allies against civil rights for all.

*sigh*

Haleoalau, does that really sound like I'm referring to all gun owners? Because given my first post on the subject (but even without it) I thought I was clearly and very specifically referencing White Nationalists. Would you like to try another rant about that?

I'm technically a gun owner myself, though I often forget I have one. It was my mother-in-law's, we inherited it when she passed away.

My beef with Norm is not about the second amendment in and of itself. It's about holding it up as the Supreme Amendment, as if the right to bear arms is more important than all other rights. If you'll try re-reading the above quote of mine I think I also clearly state that I don't think he's a KKK sympathizer (that's what my "No" means in answer to his question), but that his worship of the second amendment causes him to be more afraid of a former Supreme Court Justice who doesn't hate anyone but is concerned with what he believes is a recently developed misinterpretation of the 2A, than white nationalists and other hate filled bigots whose agenda is to purify the U.S. by any means necessary and who include some who've proven their capacity to follow through on that agenda with acts of violence.

That's it.
Jokes of the proper kind, properly told, can do more to enlighten questions of politics, philosophy, and literature than any number of dull arguments.
-Isaac Asimov, scientist and writer (1920-92)


(I'm trying to avoid eating mammals. Not getting silly, I've redefined bacon as a spice)
-Kinsley
User avatar
new cook
Fleet Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 6037
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:22 pm
Location: Surfin' USA

Re: Pain

Postby Norm357 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:43 pm

new cook wrote:
haleoalau wrote:
new cook wrote:No. But your love of firearms and completely out of proportion with reality level of fear of being separated from those inanimate objects supersedes any concern you might have for actual living human beings and the very real dangers — past, present, and future — posed by hate filled, trigger happy bigots who want to "cleanse" America in any way they can, whether by violence or by turning frustrated white middle class people into allies against civil rights for all.

*sigh*

Haleoalau, does that really sound like I'm referring to all gun owners? Because given my first post on the subject (but even without it) I thought I was clearly and very specifically referencing White Nationalists. Would you like to try another rant about that?

I'm technically a gun owner myself, though I often forget I have one. It was my mother-in-law's, we inherited it when she passed away.

My beef with Norm is not about the second amendment in and of itself. It's about holding it up as the Supreme Amendment, as if the right to bear arms is more important than all other rights. If you'll try re-reading the above quote of mine I think I also clearly state that I don't think he's a KKK sympathizer (that's what my "No" means in answer to his question), but that his worship of the second amendment causes him to be more afraid of a former Supreme Court Justice who doesn't hate anyone but is concerned with what he believes is a recently developed misinterpretation of the 2A, than white nationalists and other hate filled bigots whose agenda is to purify the U.S. by any means necessary and who include some who've proven their capacity to follow through on that agenda with acts of violence.

That's it.


Two things, and I am not trying to start an argument.

The 2nd is the ammendment that gives the Constitution it's teeth. Without it you don't have a Constitution.

Ever thought about why the 2nd is the only place you find the words "Shall Not Be Infringed."?
Don't pity the rescue dog, adopt him. If he was human, he would be the one with stories to tell and books to write.

Any idiot can kill a shark. It takes a real man to catch one, kiss him on the head, and let him go.

Image
User avatar
Norm357
Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 4909
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta GA

Re: Pain

Postby new cook » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Norm357 wrote:Two things, and I am not trying to start an argument.
I understand.

Norm357 wrote:The 2nd is the ammendment that gives the Constitution it's teeth. Without it you don't have a Constitution.
I don't agree with that at all.

Norm357 wrote:Ever thought about why the 2nd is the only place you find the words "Shall Not Be Infringed."?
Yes. I don't come to the same conclusion as you.
Jokes of the proper kind, properly told, can do more to enlighten questions of politics, philosophy, and literature than any number of dull arguments.
-Isaac Asimov, scientist and writer (1920-92)


(I'm trying to avoid eating mammals. Not getting silly, I've redefined bacon as a spice)
-Kinsley
User avatar
new cook
Fleet Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 6037
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:22 pm
Location: Surfin' USA

Re: Pain

Postby Party Flavor » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Does anyone have statistics on the proportion of gun-related crimes committed by white nationalists compared to those in other demographics?
An opinionated non-authority, petit four lover, and backward telescope aficionado

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

When a chef tells me he is cooking with his grandmother's recipe, I always wonder why. Did talent skip the past two generations?
User avatar
Party Flavor
Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 5027
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:32 pm

Re: Pain

Postby new cook » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:22 pm

Party Flavor wrote:Does anyone have statistics on the proportion of gun-related crimes committed by white nationalists v. other demographics?

SPLC may have some info on that. They have reported that hate groups have multiplied dramatically since 2000, and the Patriot movement even more so since Obama was first elected President.

Southern Poverty Law Center wrote:These factors also are feeding a powerful resurgence of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, which in the 1990s led to a string of domestic terrorist plots, including the Oklahoma City bombing. The number of Patriot groups, including armed militias, skyrocketed following the election of President Obama in 2008 – rising 813 percent, from 149 groups in 2008 to an all-time high of 1,360 in 2012. The number fell to 1,096 in 2013.


Until a year ago the CDC was effectively prohibited from collecting data on firearm injuries and deaths due to successful lobbying efforts by the NRA. I don't know if funding has yet been restored.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-ban-gu ... d=18909347

I'd have to look it up.
Jokes of the proper kind, properly told, can do more to enlighten questions of politics, philosophy, and literature than any number of dull arguments.
-Isaac Asimov, scientist and writer (1920-92)


(I'm trying to avoid eating mammals. Not getting silly, I've redefined bacon as a spice)
-Kinsley
User avatar
new cook
Fleet Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 6037
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:22 pm
Location: Surfin' USA

Re: Pain

Postby Norm357 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:25 pm

Once again, McVeigh was not a member of any patriot group. He sold t shirts and bumper stickers for them sometimes. He was not a member of a milita. He was simply crazy as a poopie rat and a mass murder.
Don't pity the rescue dog, adopt him. If he was human, he would be the one with stories to tell and books to write.

Any idiot can kill a shark. It takes a real man to catch one, kiss him on the head, and let him go.

Image
User avatar
Norm357
Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 4909
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta GA

Re: Pain

Postby Party Flavor » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:34 pm

new cook wrote:
Party Flavor wrote:Does anyone have statistics on the proportion of gun-related crimes committed by white nationalists v. other demographics?

SPLC may have some info on that. They have reported that hate groups have multiplied dramatically since 2000, and the Patriot movement even more so since Obama was first elected President.


Secondary, at best, to my question. I'm curious who's pulling the triggers.

new cook wrote:Until a year ago the CDC was effectively prohibited from collecting data on firearm injuries and deaths due to successful lobbying efforts by the NRA. I don't know if funding has yet been restored.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-ban-gu ... d=18909347

I'd have to look it up.


Thanks. I'd be curious to see if anyone can find data on this.
An opinionated non-authority, petit four lover, and backward telescope aficionado

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

When a chef tells me he is cooking with his grandmother's recipe, I always wonder why. Did talent skip the past two generations?
User avatar
Party Flavor
Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 5027
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:32 pm

Re: Pain

Postby carla » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 pm

haleoalau wrote:Because of that, You turned it into a gun argument. Maybe TJ meant it as a gun thread, or maybe it was meant as an "Can't we all just get along" thread, but since we went the gun route:


I helped turn the thread. I don't think it's an argument, but a discussion. And though we still sometimes complain about it, thread jacking, here and everywhere on line, is almost impossible to avoid.

I don't see new cook saying, arguing or asserting any of the things you are addressing and maybe implying that she did, and I respect your position.

I am somewhat personally sensitive to the crime in question as I could be singled out by and for my name alone, which has nothing to do with my beliefs and actions, just like a black person could be singled out by and for their color regardless of their beliefs and actions. (Granted, I can change my name.) I think that's why I first posted on this thread. I'm just trying to shed some light on my own participation, beyond my gun politics.

I don't think anyone is advocating taking them away. I've sure never seen or thought of a solution! I have very much enjoyed target shooting and know someone whose second career is gunsmith. I don't own a gun because I don't want to -- yet. I agree that the 2nd Amendment does not address current reality and technology.
Resistance isn't about damaging the country, but protecting it.
User avatar
carla
Admiral of the Briners
 
Posts: 12080
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Central CA

Re: Pain

Postby Tena » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:53 pm

I live less than 15 minutes away from where this occurred, and personally I was more concerned about the crazy guy using cars as target practice on the highway that was occurring just prior to this incident.

And even with this going on in my backyard, I don't believe that the government has a right to tell me if I can or can't own firearms.
I'm a single woman with a dog that might lick you to death if you let her (meaning I don't have a guard dog). I don't live in a secured (meaning gated), neighborhood. Granted, it is not an unsafe neighborhood by any means, but one never knows what could happen.
And yet, I feel secure (and still feel secure even with this tragedy). I don't own any guns, but my ex husband owns a shotgun that was registered in my name when I bought it for him as a Christmas gift. If I wanted a gun for myself, I have every right to buy one to feel more secure in my surroundings.

My personal belief is that guns should foremost be used to acquire food, and secondary as protection. This may sound contradictory, but I'm not a fan of handguns because they really are for a single purpose. But I respect others who wish to own handguns.

I believe people have a right to keep and bear arms. To protect ourselves from any threat. Even hundreds of years ago there were the mentally unstable, the religious cleansers, the stealers, looters, rapers and drunkards. Not to mention protection from animals and for hunting. I don't see how that intention of the law is any different today than it was then.
When your wrong, your wrong.

Dammit I'm mad is the same if you spell it backwards.
(And you totally just checked.)

Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
~Dan Zadra~
User avatar
Tena
Vice Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 1657
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:14 pm
Location: 39° 7' N 94° 35' W

Re: Pain

Postby haleoalau » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:40 pm

new cook wrote:
haleoalau wrote:
new cook wrote:No. But your love of firearms and completely out of proportion with reality level of fear of being separated from those inanimate objects supersedes any concern you might have for actual living human beings and the very real dangers — past, present, and future — posed by hate filled, trigger happy bigots who want to "cleanse" America in any way they can, whether by violence or by turning frustrated white middle class people into allies against civil rights for all.

*sigh*

Haleoalau, does that really sound like I'm referring to all gun owners? Because given my first post on the subject (but even without it) I thought I was clearly and very specifically referencing White Nationalists. Would you like to try another rant about that?


That may have been your intention, as the post started referencing a white supremacy organizations, but then went on solely to speak of changing the laws and Constitution to limit ownership. The Steven's post had nothing to do with such organizations. Unless, the militia's which are being referenced are believed to [all] support a racial supremacy, and I don't believe that's what you are saying. If that were the case, why would anyone what to limit arms a militia? The only other time such groups were referenced was in rebuttal.

My beef with Norm is not about the second amendment in and of itself. It's about holding it up as the Supreme Amendment, as if the right to bear arms is more important than all other rights. If you'll try re-reading the above quote of mine I think I also clearly state that I don't think he's a KKK sympathizer (that's what my "No" means in answer to his question), but that his worship of the second amendment causes him to be more afraid of a former Supreme Court Justice who doesn't hate anyone but is concerned with what he believes is a recently developed misinterpretation of the 2A, than white nationalists and other hate filled bigots whose agenda is to purify the U.S. by any means necessary and who include some who've proven their capacity to follow through on that agenda with acts of violence.

That's it.


A single or even a group of nationalists is scary.. But those few hold NOTHING on the thousands of us gun owners who are appalled by them and their ilk and would defend our country from them just as we would a foreign invader. As I said in my post my husband's oath was to protect and uphold the Constitution from "all enemies both foreign and domestic". The oath also goes on to say that he would obey orders of the President and officers, but that's a different argument because it opens up to human fallacy.

I would even argue that as ugly at their hate rhetoric is, as US citizens, until they are tried and convicted for acting upon that rhetoric, they possess all the same Constitutional rights as you or me.

However a sitting body of Justices deciding on any amendment would affect the lives of every US citizen, not just one person or group.

I don't want something as important as the Constitution and rights of the many, fall in favor of the fears of a few.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
haleoalau
Vice Admiral Briner
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:59 am
Location: Leavenworth, KS

Re: Pain

Postby okbye » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:26 pm

1986 was 28 years ago.
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.“ Homer Simpson

Charlie Brooker: "What is the most complicated thing you do in your kitchen?"
David Mitchell: "Worry about death."
User avatar
okbye
Crazy Aunt
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:24 pm
Location: phoenix, az

Re: Pain

Postby uncle Ted » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:52 am

never mind... :shhh:
Last edited by uncle Ted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
uncle Ted
Seaman Briner
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:16 pm

Re: Pain

Postby okbye » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:09 am

I forgot that anything you stated ended a discussion by it's mere unflappable correctness Geimerst. Stupid me.

If the police aren't responding to calls for help that is a different problem. By that logic why have any laws at all?
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.“ Homer Simpson

Charlie Brooker: "What is the most complicated thing you do in your kitchen?"
David Mitchell: "Worry about death."
User avatar
okbye
Crazy Aunt
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:24 pm
Location: phoenix, az

Re: Pain

Postby uncle Ted » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:22 am

As I pointed out earlier this month, in the Board Status thread - the password recovery function is inoperative and that hasn't changed.
I would prefer to use my normal logon, but can't. I've posted this on the FB Forum, Seth is aware and it still doesn't work. I try every few days...

okbye wrote:I forgot that anything you stated ended a discussion by it's mere unflappable correctness

It's tough to be challenged when you don't want to answer a basic question in a
forum that claims to have 'reasonable' discussion.

Your message is received loud and clear Barb.
Thank you for being honest about how you see my participation.
uncle Ted
Seaman Briner
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:16 pm

Previous

Return to Poli-FRY

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron