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www.goodeatsfanpage.com • View topic - Like a train wreck

Like a train wreck

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Like a train wreck

Postby todd » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:42 am

I just had to read it....
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/stephen-hawkings-blunder-on-black-holes-shows-danger-of-listening-to-scientists-says-bachmann?src=mp
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Dr. Stephen Hawking’s recent statement that the black holes he famously described do not actually exist underscores “the danger inherent in listening to scientists,” Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minnesota) said today.

Rep. Bachmann unleashed a blistering attack on Dr. Hawking, who earlier referred to his mistake on black holes as his “biggest blunder.”

“Actually, Dr. Hawking, our biggest blunder as a society was ever listening to people like you,” said Rep. Bachmann. “If black holes don’t exist, then other things you scientists have been trying to foist on us probably don’t either, like climate change and evolution.”

Rep. Bachmann added that all the students who were forced to learn about black holes in college should now sue Dr. Hawking for a full refund. “Fortunately for me, I did not take any science classes in college,” she said.

Bachmann’s anti-Hawking comments seemed to be gaining traction on Capitol Hill, as seen from the statement by Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), Chairman of the House Science Committee, who said, “Going forward, members of the House Science Committee will do our best to avoid listening to science. :P
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby okbye » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:19 pm

How can that woman still be in the picture? What a class A moron.

Black holes were always presented as a speculation, there is no way to know. Big difference between that and evolution or climate change.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby ABwannabe » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:32 pm

Until I read about black holes not existing, I honestly thought they were considered a scientific fact. Not just in SciFi, but in common-man scientific discussion (Popular Science, Scientific American, etc -- nothing scholarly).

From a common person's perspective, that news did raise questions about what the scientific community considers "presumed fact" (my phrase). The existence of black holes was inferred from then-current evidence. As far as I can tell, things like global warming and evolution (to pick the two controversies already mentioned) are also logically inferred from evidence, with a lot of "well *if* this it true, it would explain a lot so we'll presume it's true until proven otherwise". So, the "black holes don't really exist" revelation gives opportunity to pause and consider other "proven facts" similarly derived.

Disclaimer: I think my views on these subjects are well known by now. This post is not to present my views, but consider the logic behind the discussion.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Kinsley » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:02 pm


Dr. Hawking never said that Black Holes don't exist.
What he called his greatest blunder concerned the
much more esoteric issue of whether information was
lost in Black Holes.
:roll:

Wikipedia wrote:In the area of physics, by 2003, consensus was growing that Hawking was
wrong about the loss of information in a black hole. In a 2004 lecture in
Dublin, the physicist conceded his 1997 bet with Preskill, but described his
own, somewhat controversial solution, to the information paradox problem,
involving the possibility that black holes have more than one topology. In
the 2005 paper he published on the subject, he argued that the information
paradox was explained by examining all the alternative histories of universes,
with the information loss in those with black holes being cancelled out by those
without. In January 2014 he called this his "biggest blunder."

Please note that the New Yorker article sited above, was
in the humor section. :lol:

Why is this a political issue? It's true that the agreement
that a theory is accepted as "fact" is essentially a democratic
process, but only scientists who have done research on the
subject get to vote.
Last edited by Kinsley on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Nitro » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:06 pm

And that's the issue. Scientist says something, popular media tries to translate it for the average person and needs a headline that gets clicks. Things change in this process.

It's worse when it involves a theoretical physicist.

"The absence of event horizons mean that there are no black holes - in the sense of regimes
from which light can’t escape to infinity. There are however apparent horizons which persist
for a period of time. This suggests that black holes should be redefined as metastable bound
states of the gravitational field. It will also mean that the CFT on the boundary of anti
deSitter space will be dual to the whole anti deSitter space, and not merely the region
outside the horizon."
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.5761v1.pdf
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby ABwannabe » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:59 pm

Kinsley wrote:Why is this a political issue?

todd wrote: Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minnesota) said today.


There's your answer. Rep. Bachmann (whom okbye described as "a class A moron") used the headline to make a statement that brought into question (whether uninformed, or informed is in debate) political hot topics.

I'm not complaining, but typically the more conservative views will be ridiculed here in Poli-Fry. Basically, typical water cooler conversation.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Nitro » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:28 pm

Part of the issue is that some of them put out statements that even a lot of Republicans find to be ludicrous. "Legitimate rape" and the statement that if we use up all the coal and oil it won't matter as we'll get a resupply or questioning the use of wind power on the basis that wind is a finite resource are some of the worst examples.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby todd » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:40 pm

She is moronic, to say the least.
This is a hilarious FACT! :twisted:
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:58 pm

+1 Todd.
to the whole issue and this thread? HAAAAAA!!! (a horrified, "I already gave up" ha ha)
We need a bigger basket.
(P.S. thanks for the clarification, Kinsley. I'm into medical and some ecologic science, but my brain and interests won't/can't touch physics)

IT'S SATIRE, FOLKS. AND OLD NEWS/JOKE. SHE IS AN EXTREMIST AND ANTI-SCIENCE, BUT LOOK INTO IT. search "rep. bachmann hawking"
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:12 pm

"Pretty sure Hawking did not say black holes don't exist. What he said was that the event horizon may not be the smooth spherical surface around the hole as previously thought. He suggests that a more chaotic surface could resolve the discrepancies between QM and Relativity."

"What? You mean the mainstream media reported a complex scientific problem inaccurately, by pulling a single soundbite out of context and using that to incorrectly characterise something a scientist said? I don't beleive it."

"Remember Poe's Law:
Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

Credit to http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=272826

I'm a New Yorker subscriber. Rarely read it online/current, I'm at least 2 issues behind.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby ABwannabe » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:38 pm

Kinsley wrote:Please note that the New Yorker article sited above, was
in the humor section. :lol:

Ugh. I fell for it hook, like, and sinker. :oops:

This is why I don't really like satire articles unless they make it *very* clear that they're satire. I think The Onion is known well enough (and "over the top" enough) that I don't often get bothered by it. I've never heard of this author, and there was no way (to my knowledge) to know that it was supposed to be humor.

The sad thing is, I could see Ms. Bachmann making statements on this issue that were ambiguous and/or taken out of context.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby okbye » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:40 pm

Not all conservatives are morons but when a moronic statement makes the news it is most likely from a conservative.
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Nitro » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:42 pm

I know of Morgan's Law, Wheaton's law and Godwin's law, but Poe's law was a new one for me.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Kinsley » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:34 pm

carla wrote:I'm into medical and some ecologic science, but my brain
and interests won't/can't touch physics)

I started out as a Physics major almost 50 years ago, so
I've tried to keep up. I've read all of Stephen Hawking's and
other books intended for general readers and I've been watching
"Thru the Wormhole", "The Universe" and other Science programs
since Carl Sagan's original Cosmos. I find Astrophysics fairly
understandable but my brain has trouble with String Theory and
much of the other current thought on subatomic topics.

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Nitro » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:03 pm

Wave-particle duality is something I've never been able to wrap my head around.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Kinsley » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:19 pm

Nitro wrote:Wave-particle duality is something I've never been able to wrap my head around.

A big part of the problem with subatomic physics is semantic.
One tends to think of a particle as something like a grain of
sand, but we don't have good a word for an entities like
electrons, photons, nutrinos, etc. Wave particle duality is
difficult enough to understand; Quantum Entanglment is the
one that really spins my head. But, those phenomena can be
demonstrated in the laboratory, so I accept that they exist
even if I don't understand. I begin to have doubts about String
Theory and the associated concepts of extra dimensions and
Branes which are just the result of complex mathematics and
can't be tested by any technology that has yet been imagined.

Wouldn't you love hear to Ms. Bachmann's understanding of
any of that?

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Norm357 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:28 pm

okbye wrote:Not all conservatives are morons but when a moronic statement makes the news it is most likely from a conservative.


Congressman (D) Hank Johnson
During a House Armed Services Committee hearing on March 25, 2010 concerning the U.S. military installation on the island of Guam, Johnson said to Admiral Robert F. Willard, Commander of U.S. Pacific Command, "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.".

(D) Shelia Jackson Lee
“Maybe I should offer a good thanks to the distinguished members of the majority, the Republicans, my chairman and others, for giving us an opportunity to have a deliberative constitutional discussion that reinforces the sanctity of this nation and how well it is that we have lasted some 400 years, operating under a constitution that clearly defines what is constitutional and what is not.”

The stupid runs thick in most politicians regardless of political affiliation.
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Any idiot can kill a shark. It takes a real man to catch one, kiss him on the head, and let him go.

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Norm357 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:29 pm

Also, Michelle Bachman is a idiot.
Don't pity the rescue dog, adopt him. If he was human, he would be the one with stories to tell and books to write.

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby okbye » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:18 pm

Sorry but 2 quotes do not trump the plethora of conservative stupid.
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Kinsley » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:41 pm

okbye wrote:Sorry but 2 quotes do not trump the plethora of conservative stupid.

Frankly, I don't think there are that many stupid politicians.
Most of them assume that we are stupid enough that they
can lie to us and we won't know it.

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:37 pm

Some Bachmann non-satiric, somewhat current news:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... adio-show/

A portion:
"As a matter of fact, we see that in legislation being pushed all across the United States, to punish people who don’t agree with that viewpoint. And I think that’s very reflective of where we are at in the culture and why we see the rise of tyranny.

Today, the big push is on transgender, and so they’re continuing to push us down this the road. I believe that we’re going to see coming an effort for multiples in marriage. Not just two, but multiples in marriage. I think they want to legalize that. I think also they want to abolish age-of-consent laws, which means . . . we would do away with statutory-rape laws so that adults would be able to freely prey on little children sexually. That’s the deviance that we’re seeing embraced in our culture today.” (For the audio, please check Mediaite)."
IT GETS WORSE.
ETA: online news article dated 7/25.

CBS News
"This article originally appeared on RealClearPolitics 7/22/14
Though set to retire from the U.S. House after her term expires at the end of this year, Michele Bachmann may not be done with electoral politics. The Minnesota congresswoman and 2012 Republican presidential candidate told RealClearPolitics on Tuesday that she is considering a second White House run.
'The four-term congresswoman that she would "certainly" reap the benefits of having run once before, if she were to launch a second White House bid. "Like with anything else, practice makes perfect," she said. And I think if a person has gone through the process -- for instance, I had gone through 15 presidential debates -- it's easy to see a person's improvement going through that."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michele-bac ... -a-chance/

no need to go on.
Last edited by carla on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:39 pm

By they way, the original link does say "New Yorker/humor/Borowitz.

I"m not very familiar with him either; I read the paper issue that comes to me via US Postal Service and go online for author interviews and input, usually fiction. He's not regularly published on paper even though they have a weekly humor column.

It appears, per news reports, that several media and other sites, and many people, fell for this like a ton of rocks.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Kinsley » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:41 am

carla wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2014/07/25/rep-michele-bachmann-slams-gay-agenda-on-radio-show/

A portion:
"As a matter of fact, we see that in legislation being pushed all across the United States,
to punish people who don’t agree with that viewpoint. And I think that’s very reflective
of where we are at in the culture and why we see the rise of tyranny.

Today, the big push is on transgender, and so they’re continuing to push us down this
the road. I believe that we’re going to see coming an effort for multiples in marriage.
Not just two, but multiples in marriage. I think they want to legalize that. I think also
they want to abolish age-of-consent laws, which means . . . we would do away with
statutory-rape laws so that adults would be able to freely prey on little children sexually.
That’s the deviance that we’re seeing embraced in our culture today.”
(For the audio, please check Mediaite)."

I don't know what to think about that. :? There is no
continuity of thought, each sentence there is a new topic.

Does she know other people who believe insanity like that,
who reinforce her paranoia, or does she just make it up as
she goes along when somebody sticks a microphone in her
face. ?

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:19 am

^ Who knows?!

I may have disrupted her continuity in how I quoted the post. yeah, right. :P But please, read the article, I did only quote a small portion.

Without reading or listening to more, I think that she believes that equal rights for gays, in the courts, per equal rights described in our Constitution, is "legislation being pushed all across the United States, to punish people who don’t agree with that viewpoint. And I think that’s very reflective of where we are at in the culture and why we see the rise of tyranny."

So now gays are tyrants. Interesting take. Wonder if she ever had a physically bashed constituent or one fired or denied a rental due to their sexuality?

And if anyone has questions, please research trans gender and sexual ambiguity. It's often (usually?) due to chromosomal issues and much more common than you know or think. Genetic or not, can you even imagine?! Surprising their suicide rate isn't higher. We're NOT talking about cross-dressers here. Born into the wrong body -- try to imagine.
I should share some technical info at this point, but - not now, don't have the energy.

I will not address her other claims, they're too offensive.
My assumption and opinion? Yes, she knows many other people who think as she does. But national polls do show she's in the minority, thank goodness.

I'd love to see her in another political campaign! :twisted:
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby Kinsley » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:52 am

carla wrote: ^ Who knows?!

I may have disrupted her continuity in how I quoted the post. yeah, right. :P
But please, read the article, I did only quote a small portion.

I read the whole article, my comment stands.

carla wrote: Yes, she knows many other people who think as she does.
But national polls do show she's in the minority, thank goodness.

I know there plenty of others who are just as crazy, but
I really wonder if you could find many, who believe that:

we’re going to see coming an effort for multiples in marriage.
Not just two, but multiples in marriage... they want to legalize that... also
they want to abolish age-of-consent laws, which means . . . we would do
away with statutory-rape laws so that adults would be able to freely prey
on little children sexually. That’s the deviance that we’re seeing embraced
in our culture today

I can understand politicians spewing that kind of venom to
stir up their followers, but

Q: Where would ordinary people get ideas like that?

A: The internet. :x

OK. I give up. I know intelligent people who believe
that Obama's thugs have already started rounding up
gun owners and putting them in concentration camps.
I guess there are folks who will believe anything. :roll:

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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:58 am

^ ooookay.
I wasn't disagreeing in any way; I know where you stand. My comment about "read the whole article" was admittedly directed at anyone who may disagree with my post/Michelle Bachmann, or who needs or wants more education about all these issues. Especially transgender.
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Re: Like a train wreck

Postby carla » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:07 am

Kinsley wrote:I can understand politicians spewing that kind of venom to
stir up their followers, but

Q: Where would ordinary people get ideas like that?

A: The internet. :x


Sadly, horribly, regrettably, I think they get it not just from the internet but from some religions/sects.
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