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Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

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Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby ABwannabe » Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:56 pm

I'm putting this here more because it's such a downer than anything. I'd rather it *not* degrade into discussing gun control, gun rights, media encouragement, or the other stuff that is discussed everywhere else.

The Oregon shooting, for some reason, has hit me hard. I've not been callous to the other, far too recent, shootings but I've been able to say "that's bad, but that's somewhere else." Ironically, Oregon is about as far from me as possible and this one just hurts more.

I wish we as a society could be healthy enough to not have to deal with this as much, and strong enough to deal with it before it goes this far.

I don't know what to think about this, other than the obvious thoughts of sympathy, and compassion. And, yes, even some for the shooter. What kind of pain, corrupt ideology, or whatever would drive someone to do this? What if something had happened differently in his life, leading him in a better direction? I almost think that this is clear evidence of mental insanity.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby carla » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:19 pm

Been on my mind too. a good friend's adult daughter lives in Roseburg. (Need I add they were unaffected physically?) And I had my "home town" freak out with Elliot Rodger. So sad, prayers and love and light to all affected.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby okbye » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:58 pm

The frequency is getting ridiculous. They more often than not kill the shooter which I think is a bad thing. We need to figure out why people keep doing this, and a dead man tells no tales. It can't be notoriety, they happen so often the shooter isn't "special" anymore and they do seem to be downplaying their names anyway.

Gun control isn't really the answer to this particular problem, we need to know why before we can figure out how to stop it. Has it just become the accepted thing to do when a nut wants to go out with a bang? They have to know they will likely end up dead. I don't know what the answer is.

AB, is it because this one was targeting christians specifically? Kind of the opposite of what usually happens.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby ABwannabe » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:37 am

I'll admit that the initial reports of Christians getting "special" treatment caught my attention, but that's not really what's keeping me bummed. I think that it's just a "tipping point" and evidence that our society is really getting way to off base.

I think I'm also bothered by some of the reactions to the shooting. I heard one (pro-gun) person respond to President Obama's (gun-control) response with "Maybe the next mass shooting will involve our President." I had an inclination to just punch the idiot (I resisted). I'm pro-gun (don't have one myself, for personal reasons) but that is just a stupid and inappropriate response. There was another incident, same day as the Oregon shooting, where a person was arguing at work (over how to do something work-related), and left to cool down. When he came back he said "I had to take my meds before I killed somebody." He is now on leave, hopefully to return soon. While I understand his having to be on leave, I'm frustrated that everyone is so much on pins and needles that removing him from the building was an appropriate response.

I'm frustrated at the apparently lack of ability -- or desire -- to disagree responsibly, to be able to recognize a hurting person and help, to let hurting people know that it's OK to hurt, and safe to talk about and work through that hurt. I'm frustrated at the apparent lack of accountability in our society, the "not my problem" attitude. There's such a (legitimate) fear of consequences that so many don't help. If a kid is lost in a store, I as an adult male have to worry about accusations if I try to help that kid find his/her parents. If a person starts getting angry at a restaurant, I have to worry about what will happen if I try to intervene (possibly preventing another "going postal" incident).

I'm frustrated that society seems to be ruled by entropy rather than the intelligent ability to introduce order.

[ Warning, I get preachy after this. I'm just stating my views, further venting what's apparently on my mind. ]

And, yes, as a Christian I have to believe that we carry a message that would help. If only more Christians would stop focusing entirely on the symptoms (pick an issue: abortion, adultery, pornography, shootings, whatever) and look at the root problem -- people looking to the wrong things for a sense of identity/belonging/happiness. Too many Christians have lost sight ( or never really grasped sight) of what is special about what we have.

Maybe that's what's got me down -- I feel like we've let our society down. We haven't stood strong enough against the Westboro Baptist yahoos, or the others who have cast such a poor light on Christianity. We haven't made sure that the world knows that there is a cure for the diseases in society, the cancers of mass shootings and the other symptoms.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby ABwannabe » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:39 am

OK, I agree about the benefits of not killing the shooters. Trying to understand has a potential to learn what's going on. Much like taking a biopsy helps to understand cancer, removing the shooter and analyzing it can give us so much knowledge.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby okbye » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:36 pm

I've made similar arguments many times over Planned Parenthood. Abortion is such a small part of what they do, a good part of which is preventing unwanted pregnancies. Why can none of the protesters see that destroying PP will only lead to more abortions? You want to prevent abortions, the best way is to prevent the need for them in the first place. The root of the problem. But no, we can't have that.

I don't think there's any way to avoid it, it will have to come down to some kind of gun control. Obviously these people are disturbed but how do you find them before they snap? The way we do things and the societal stigma attached to anyone needing help makes it almost impossible. After Virginia Tech I saw an article about the problems in mental health care in the schools. There is so much stigma on campus not just with the students but with a history of needing the counselor on your record. At VT the way the counselor's office was set up there was no way to get to it without everyone passing by knowing that's where you were going. There was no anonymity to receiving help. I believe they said the shooter had been in the office once but didn't follow up. Several of these shooters, including Arizona's own Loughner, were known to be disturbed. But there's nothing you can do about it if they are an adult until they hurt someone. My brother has a neighbor who has been a serious thorn in the family's side for a couple years. He has damaged the property, threatened family members, he even once printed up a bunch of fliers once saying my brother was a child molester and he needed to be removed from the neighborhood and taped them to all of the mailboxes. He's in his early 20s and is a bath salts casualty. He's completely fried. For some reason he has decided to focus on my brother's family, maybe just because his house faces ours. There have been so many complaints, not just from here but the neighbors too because he paces up and down the street yelling about crazy stuff. The cops have been out a million times. Once he gets arrested he's made to take his meds so when he gets to court he appears ok, even though he still insists my brother is in his head making him do things. He has passed several psych evaluations because he was ok at the time. There are cameras all over this house because of him and he has been caught doing stuff by them. He has served some jail time, he has been barred from coming back to his parent's house, he has had most legal things thrown at him, but he hasn't gotten any real help. Somewhere along the line he was prescribed meds and they work if he takes them but he doesn't like to take them. Finally the HOA threatened to sue his parents and take the house and they have been keeping him under control so it's been quiet. The main point is though this is a messed up dude, and a perfect candidate to lose it and shoot the place up. And nothing can be done about it. Because he can function on meds they won't commit him or put him in a group home. There are plenty of people like him out there, not just drug casualties but the organically ill, and there isn't anything that can be done about them until they hurt someone. You always hear cries of "Why didn't someone notice he was ill?", well, lots of times they do but there's nothing they can do about it.

I saw a British documentary a few years ago about violent children. There was one 13 y.o. boy who was so bad his mother had to keep all of her kitchen knives locked in her car or he would stab her. She tried everything she could find and no one could help her. They interviewed the boy and he knew he did wrong things but he said he couldn't stop himself when he got mad. The kid needs help but no one is willing to give it. There was no conclusion to the story, either he will get better or he will eventually hurt someone. That kind of thing has to stop, we have to have a way to help these people.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby okbye » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:38 pm

I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.“ Homer Simpson

Charlie Brooker: "What is the most complicated thing you do in your kitchen?"
David Mitchell: "Worry about death."
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby ABwannabe » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:32 am



Yeah, that's why I carefully referred to "initial reports" an why I don't think that's what's keeping be upset. Even *if* Christians got worse treatment, it could be for any number of reasons not theological.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby tj » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:12 pm

TOO MANY mass shootings?

What, pray tell, is an acceptable number?
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby okbye » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:23 pm

Well, none really, but lately it seems to have gone completely crazy.
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

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Charlie Brooker: "What is the most complicated thing you do in your kitchen?"
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby tj » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:18 pm

Exactly, and a certain amount of that perception is from the media. When two newscasters were shot here in Virginia it was impossible to avoid the story for weeks. We have informed ourselves into a state of frenzy.

There is no doubt that we are facing a mental health issue, though gun control is an obvious patch and a salve to some of the public. The mental health and community awareness of the responsible individuals is a worse than daunting task.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby ABwannabe » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:43 am

tj, you ask a good question. I should clarify.

Any mass shooting (I'm ignoring other shootings for the purpose of this discussion) is too many.

The point of this subject is that I can understand anomalous events, the "spit happens" types of things. Because we're human and flawed, I expect (but don't like) that things will come up occasionally. The seem to be less occasional now.

I'm sure media presentation is making it appear worse. Your example of the TV crew shooting is salient. But, I have to think that the raw numbers are going up, too. I mean, 40 years ago, when/if a mass shooting happened, it was reported then. It may have been called "gang violence" or something, but it was reported.
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Re: Too many mass shootings, it breaks my heart

Postby okbye » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:56 am

There was a shooting at my niece's college this morning. One dead, 3 injured. It wasn't a random shooting at least, it was preceded by a group fight. The fight did lead to an armed student shooting into a group of people though. Yep, so glad he had the freedom to carry a gun to his classes.
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out - Bill Hicks

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.“ Homer Simpson

Charlie Brooker: "What is the most complicated thing you do in your kitchen?"
David Mitchell: "Worry about death."
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